Kim Andrews 1/18/25

(This interview has been edited and condensed for length)

Selma:  Can you talk to us, about the journey you had with your dad up until he passed away, and then now with your mom?

 Kim:  Happy to. But first, I want to thank both of you, Selma and Zack, for inviting me, because this really has been a journey … you hear about other people. It's a journey about caregiving, and then suddenly you wake up going, I'm going through this!

 …My dad, was pretty ornery. I say that because we didn't know what was going on with him. We just didn't know what we didn't know. And when we found out that he had to have his leg amputated, it took us back. He was just putting Vaseline on his legs, and we had no idea. He always stayed in his room. Just all kinds of signs. I was in HR. Zack, you're familiar with HR, how HR can be. And I was a senior leader and it's hard to get away when you have responsibilities in the way that you do … manager, director, VP.   So, I realized that I had to decide. I was ready to leave HR … I decided that for me to really start looking after my parents, I would have to leave corporate, and I'd start my own business. I wanted to do that anyway. So that was the beginning of the journey.

 When my dad had his leg amputated, I'm here in Nashville. They're in Colorado. I had to find a place where he went after surgery, a nursing home or rehab. So, I looked on the Internet and found a place, and it had all 5 stars, and it looked good. I came into town and we all, as a family went to see him. The place was horrible! It was horrible! I knew I had to advocate for him. So, I asked for a meeting the next day… We ended up moving him to another facility. So, the story with my dad is, him being very ornery, that journey that 1st year, he went through six nursing homes. Six! Because, just to put it in plain terms, he pissed everybody off. There were some bad nursing homes but…  some nice ones too. He just would not act right. Thank God I was able to fly back and forth as my dad’s health continued to decline.

  Then, the people from his nursing home called and wanted to meet with us as a family. It was my sister, my mom the administrator and the nursing staff, about five or six people were there. They suggested it was time for him to go to hospice… Well, I was all ready for it. I knew that was coming. I already checked it off my box that if they offered it, we were going to have it… because I was kind of the lead in all this.

 This is something to be aware of when you're working with siblings ... I said, yes, we're going to have hospice… and my sister started crying…. She was trying to understand and just take it all in that we might be losing my dad. About a month later, they called me. I'm here in Nashville… And they said it's about time. Bring the family together. It’s near the end. So, I go out to Colorado, and I told them I would take the night shift sitting with my dad. I would go around 7:00pm and stay to 7:00am and just sleep in a chair… He was with us for about five or six more days after I got there…. So that was my story with my dad. 

 Selma:  Based on your experience with your dad as his caregiver, that was your first major experience with caregiving, did it shape or change the way that you care for your mom now?

 Kim:  Yes. I'm going to say it does. There's an awareness you get because you don't know you're in it until you're in it most of the time. And then you're like, what do I do now? Where's the books? Who's the people? Where do I go? And I did all of that…. How can I make sure they're taken care of? Make sure their insurance is taken care of? All of that I did. Paid the bills, all of it. And it happens quickly.

 Fortunately, I was able to make the time, but, for instance, my sister, she really can't, and she lives there currently in the same city with my mom. And we're struggling at this moment trying to figure out who's going to take my mom to deal with her cataracts, and who needs to stay with her… we're dealing with that as we speak right now. So, it's a challenge, and I can imagine if I was still working corporate, how that would be. I probably would have to quit… There are decisions you have to make. Fortunately, I have a husband, but if I was a single parent, I would have to find a way to take care of my family, of my parents.

 Zack:  Thank you so much for sharing all that. You brought some great suggestions like advocating. That's important as part of our caregiving. But the sibling part, I have to go back to that a little bit.  If you were to go back and redo things for example, with the siblings, are there any things that you would do a little different?

 Kim:  So let me tell you what happened, Zack. About six months after my dad died, my sister accused me of killing him.… We were talking, and she says, “Well, you're responsible for killing daddy.  You killed him.” And I'm like, “what?” And it just came out of nowhere. And she said, “You made the decision to put him in hospice. If he didn't go to hospice, he would still be with us.”

 After that, I didn't talk to her for about a month, and we use to talk regularly… I really was trying to figure out what happened. And what I realized is I didn't let her have her voice and say what she was really feeling. I made the decision at that point instead of saying, “Let's think about it. Let’s see what everybody wants to do.” You know, get everybody involved. So, she didn't have a voice. In my anger, in my frustration, in my hurt, I realized that I had to apologize to her. So, I apologized. And once that happened, we were on better terms…. So, when it comes to siblings, and everybody's sibling relationship is different, but make sure everyone has a voice. If they're relying on you to make the decision, you can tell them what the decision is and why. There are going to be some that disagree with you. There are going to be some that don't care. There are some that'll be on your side, or you might be alone, but a decision has to be made. And I say be prayerful about it and be very thoughtful that they know that you've heard them… And also, my brother wasn't in a position to really make those kinds of decisions in the way we would have liked him to be. In hindsight I would have changed that for sure.

 Selma:  In your work, helping clients who are trying to find that next employer, do you ever have conversations about caregiving? Are they having those conversations with potential employers that this is something that's important to them?

 Kim:  I coach executives and leaders and leadership development and careers, not so much job search as I was initially. I've come across a few clients that have had to deal with caring for their parent in a way that they're making career decisions based on the benefits that they have, the time off that they have. They're basing it on the fact that, if their parent is in the home, that they can add them to their benefits.  You know, little things that they're aware of and that if they took a higher-level position, that would take less time away from them. I've had a few conversations, but typically… we don't go that deep…. People make career decisions based on… money, but stats show money isn't important. However, when you're caring for someone, you do have to look at your own budget, and their budget and what's going on….

 Selma:  Given your HR background, looking back, what kind of tips would you give HR in dealing with an employee in your long-distance caregiving situation?

 Kim: I would probably look at our time-off policy a little bit differently… because it's typically categorized and make it more like PTO, open. I think that would be helpful. And then I would probably do a little training. I'd have you guys talk to our management team… sometimes they don't know what their own employees are going through-- just to sensitize. I think the more you're aware, but it's also instead of thinking about I, I, I, just look at it as a we, we, we, as a team effort, as a company, and say, we've got to take care of “we” as a whole. So, I think I would try and implement more self-awareness, more emotional intelligence, the awareness of it's not just you, but it's taking into consideration your colleagues, your management team, as well as your team that you're developing. That's what I would do.

 Zack:  What would you tell the younger Kim, before the caregiver journey in terms of getting prepared, what to do differently maybe or just to prepare for that caregiver journey?

 Kim:  Knowing what I know now, I would have left HR a long time ago… I would really say that you need to be aware that you may have plans, but those plans can change. And if they change, how would you want your life to look? And if something shifted in your life like a parent that you had to take care of, how would you do that?... It's easy to put it off… an expectation of just because you have a sibling that lives right next door, maybe even in the same house or in the same city, your expectation that they will be there does not make it a reality…. That hits hard, and it affects relationships among siblings.

 I would probably, in the role that I had, be an advocate in a way that I would probably do surveys. Like, when we would do employee surveys, I would ask some questions related to that (family caregiving) in that survey…. I would look at the data to say, well here's some key points we can look at. I would be more strategic and not put it out there right away, but just feel it out and find ways I can integrate it in so that there's the awareness. So that awareness comes through over time by conversations at the water cooler, so to speak, or in the break room… Or like when someone’s joking about their mom or their mother-in-law living with them, I would ask them to talk more about what that means, and I would listen more.

 Selma:  Going back to what you said about the expectation that maybe a sibling who is there or lives nearby will step up and help, just because you think so, doesn’t mean it will happen. That’s a good point.

 Kim:  I think the other thing I learned and I’m still learning is the relationship you have with your parent is not the same type of relationship your sibling may have with your parent. Does that make sense? You may think they have a good relationship, but there may be some baggage there.  And it could show up in their care. You know, they could physically be there. They may do the thing, but they may not do it in the way you would do it.  

 Like with my mom, I realize that her independence is very important to her. For example, she loves going grocery shopping and likes to pay for it herself. I’m happy to pay for it, but at times she likes to do that herself and I let her enjoy that. I mean, just imagine if a sibling or someone comes to you and says, you can't drive anymore, Zack. And you're like, I can drive perfectly. And they just take away your independence. So, I think the more independent, the more participative in the relationship, it becomes deeper… It's interesting that you think everybody has the same relationship with your parents as you do, and they don't. And they treat them that way, and you see it. And they don't even realize it, but you see it.

 Zack:  I'd like to take advantage of having you here as an HR leader and career coach and someone living in the working caregiver space. This is a hot topic for caregivers… that they must take time away. 

You said you'd probably leave your job. And that may create a gap in your resume, your LinkedIn profile.  What advice would you give… Would you have somebody, indicate that they were a caregiver or not or just leave it as a gap on LinkedIn? …If you do include it in LinkedIn, what would be some of the skill sets based on your experience, especially as a long-distance caregiver, that you would include in that gap?

 Kim:  So, what I tell clients is that when you have a gap in employment and they're wondering why you're off, say, I took advantage of the time I had off to take care of my family, to do some things I wanted to do, to go on vacation. This was the time that I thought would be the best vacation time I can take off while I'm still looking. And this gives me time to really find out what I want to do next. And it's usually the truth. The employers don't have to know the details. They just want to know your story.  And you can tell them that the time you took off gave you a chance to be more self-aware and gain stronger emotional intelligence. I've been able to spend time with family that I didn't spend before that developed deeper relationships. You can tell your story because the employer is a person, and they have a story.

 Now how do you put that in written form? Well, you look at things like volunteering on boards, taking classes to further your education… make sure you have some LinkedIn courses you've taken.  Do something to show you're doing something towards where you want to go… to show that you're bettering yourself. So, in your LinkedIn profile you don’t look desperate. You put the skills that you have. You brand yourself. What do you want to be known for? And that's what you focus on…. I would probably put more soft skills than I would hard skills. The hard skills, HR management, executive development, training… but I would probably increase my soft skills more.  

 Selma And Zack: Thank you so much for joining us today, Kim.